flrunners.com

If you look at the results from state you will notice that a majority on the region 1 teams (north Florida) most of them did not perform as well as expected. I think the heat was the issue as most of north Florida has been racing and training in much cooler weather than the rest of the state. This may continue to be a trend from year to year with the new state schedule that starts much later. So what can we do? Do we push our county, district and regional races to starting later so that our kids are running in temps that are closer to what they might see at state which now runs ad late as 10:50? Anyone have any thoughts?

It was a warm day and certainly it was the case that the last few races raced in different conditions than the first few. Starting an hour earlier (or even 30 minutes) would have helped, but it was just one of those days. We were noting that it was already "warm" when our girls were getting ready for the first race of the day. Next year could be 45 degrees, you never know.
Can't control the weather but I would support an earlier start time, even if just 30 minutes earlier.

Jeff - I agree with all the posts that it was a warm day, particularly for the later races and times suffered for it. But I think you pose a really profound question about training temperatures and race results that I was pondering myself. Ironically, I was reading a back issue of Running Times (August 2011 P. 54-59) on the trip home today that hinted at some current research that may support this belief. Thus, I issue a challenge to the statistics "geeks" (of which I am one) if we examine the 1A/2A races and match season bests or averages to State performances is there a pattern between climatic regions of the state and performance ....

So what happens on a year when it's 40 degrees? Should we then start later in the day (say 1:00 PM) in order to accomodate the teams from down South? My point is that when it comes to weather, it all evens out over the long run. I think holding the meet anywhere in Central Florida, as it's currently held, is a great compromise for all teams involved. Some years it may be warmer, which would theoretically favor the teams from down South and some years it may colder, which should favor the teams from up North. As far as the starting order of the different classification, that's totally random, so it's just luck of the draw from year to year. You can't please all of the people all of the time, but I believe the current venue and scheduling is about as good as you can get.

ericn262

Jeff - I agree with all the posts that it was a warm day, particularly for the later races and times suffered for it. But I think you pose a really profound question about training temperatures and race results that I was pondering myself. Ironically, I was reading a back issue of Running Times (August 2011 P. 54-59) on the trip home today that hinted at some current research that may support this belief. Thus, I issue a challenge to the statistics "geeks" (of which I am one) if we examine the 1A/2A races and match season bests or averages to State performances is there a pattern between climatic regions of the state and performance ....

@ericn262 I haven't reviewed our whole region (1A R2), and Trinity Prep's course is a good bit slow, but for Mount Dora Bible's part, we had 5 PRs in the 10:30 state race. The other two were 1.25 seconds and 6.something seconds off PR. But in context, the last five meets we ran were pre-state Friday race (hot!), MDB three weeks in a row (invite, county, district), and Trinity Prep, so it's not like we were in a good position to be cranking out PRs.

I didn't think it was all that hot, but it wasn't your typical, cool November day. We trained and raced in much hotter weather two months ago!

@ericn262
Just looking at the 2A girls results I found that only 6 girls in the top 50 ran season best times.

Daesha Rogers, American Heritage, 2nd
Ella Wurth, Pine Crest, 8th
Kailey Gonzalez, Carrollton, 14th
Marie Madiedo, Carrollton, 18th
Daniella Cosio, Carrollton, 35th
Nicole Kolisch, Carrollton, 45th

All of them are from South Florida and Region 4-2A. Saturday was warm, but it was actually the coolest weather we had experienced in the last few weeks!

Did I miss anyone?

My point wasn't that we need to change the state meet to accomadate any specific region. What I was asking is for ideas in how to better prepare a team for that kind of change. I have still not looked at the times close to see how much of a difference their was between north performances and south but at first glance it looked like south team averages were about 10 seconds slow while north about 40. Again this was just looking at a few teams. I also know that not every year we see temps Like this but wonder if we continue to start at 8:30 in a part of the state that is generally a bit warmer than ours if we should consider starting our county, district and regional races up north at least at 8:30 just to be in line with what is done at the state meet if not for the temperatures just for consistency. Is the 8:30 start time here to stay?

I guess what I am wondering is if the meet directors of the district and regional races in region 1 should be considering matching up race times with state to better prepare our runners for the most improtant race of the year. For instance 2a girls started at 10:10 and boys at 10:50 at state, why not set up district and regionals so that 2a runs at those times? If it means we are preparing our kids better for state, why not match the times up?

@joliver1
We did that last year in 3a Region 3 for just that reason, knowing we were the last race 2010.

@joliver1

All due respect, but if we "push" anybody to change anything, we need to all push the FHSAA and the Little Everglades folks to open at least 30 minutes earlier and start no later than 8:00 a.m. I believe they are increasing the risk of serious heat injury by starting an hour later than the past few years.

You are suggesting that we subject even more kids to that risk by moving district and region times later. The next day after the state meet here in Tampa was several degrees hotter than the state meet day with fewer clouds and less breeze. Can you imagine the potential for serious injury if next year's race is that hot?

@coachboza I agree 100%!

Anybody who was at the state meet in 2006 remembers the number of top runners "dropping like flies" from the heat. Only 2 guys broke 16:00 and it was brutal to watch.

As a side note that day, a top runner from Belen Jesuit was leading by quite a bit, less than 200M from the finish when he suddenly dropped to his knees from the heat. Amazingly, he got up and staggered across the line in what seemed an eternity as quite a few runners went by. He crossed in 16:57 and was immediately taken for IVs in the medical tent. Belen ended up winning the team title. The story made Sports Ilustrated.

@coachboza I totally agree. The first race needs to be 7:30 a.m . I had two girls go down at the end of the 9:50 race. The tent area and the paramedics were absolutely swamped with kids. Other than that I had no complaints.

@jdpsu

Perhaps FHSAA and the Ranch management need a reminder of what can happen if the temps are too high on this course:

Everything thing seems rushed for a one day meet. 1A girls were finishing when 2A girls were starting so it was difficult to see through the masses.

I believe a two day meet would be a better fit. Have two classes run Friday evening and two classes run Saturday morning. The volunteers could be spread out and have shorter work times, teams would not have to wait around as long for awards and you could have a proper introduction and view of each race. Prestate does this and it seems to work out well.

As for north Florida teams, the region 1 course in Lake City was fast....very fast. However, here is one example racing in the conditions.

James Davis of Eastside ran 17 seconds slower than region 1 time and finished 31st overall in class 2A. He improved from 13th at region to 8th from region on Sunday. I had told him leading into the race that the conditions would be the same for everyone for his race and to run even effort until last kilo. He executed it perfectly moving up the entire way. He passed about 20 runners in the last kilo alone. He even beat the district champion who had beaten him two consecutive weeks by 27 seconds and 8 seconds. So in the end, he may not have run his best time, but he performed and placed well.

I agree with eherran...you are never going to get what you want when there is a 3 hour difference between races.

I think if any race should start at 7am it should be the state race just due to the fact that the runners get no break from the sun, no cool trails to run in just a wide open field. I agree that the state course time needs to change but figured that this has already been addressed before the race which resulted in no change. I think with the current race times and even the ones in the past (2006 proved it) that it is only a matter of time before someone gets seriously hurt. I still think that we should be matching our race start times at district an regional with state, up north running at 10 and 11 in November on courses that have shaded sections won't result in anything dangerous and will help prepare the kids to run at the same time at state, but I do agree that the state time should change.

Since heat is a safety issue why don't we move the state meet to a northern venue where there is a better chance of "safe" weather and we can take advantage of earlier starting times? Apalachee regional park in Tallahassee, or the regional meet course that Scott Gowan hosted last year in Tallahassee. Here is a better idea lets allow for 4 different locations for each of the classifications. That way the requirements on the venue would drop and open up many more good courses and everyone runs first in the cooler weather and the shirts would all have only their classification on the back killing two birds with one stone.

The start time needs to be 7:00am- period! I love Little Everglades Ranch, but if the management at the Ranch won't budge and allow us to start at the proper time, then next year needs to be the last year we have State there. During the regular season, the majority of meets start with girls at 8:00am and boys at 8:30am at the latest. It doesn't make sense to start races that much later. I wouldn't be opposed to having 2 classifications each day, as someone else pointed out, that is done at Pre-State. I think the only reason district and regional meets start later in the morning is the travel involved from teams coming from a further distance. I would guess the majority of teams that come to state overnight it, but I could be wrong.

I think everyone agrees that the meet needs to start earlier, my question is this: How do we realistically make that happen? Seems like the FHSAA and the Ranch make all the decisions without consideration to the competitors, coaches or fans. There are numerous issues raised every year, from starting time, to parking fees, to T-shirt prices. The meet is obviously driven by profit, we all see that. So what can be done when the very entity that controls the meet, the FHSAA doesn't really give us(coaches) the times of day. Speaking for myself, I emailed Shanell voicing my concerns about the late start times, in fact, each of my team parents did the same and all we got back was a short answer of "the matter is being looked into". With the meet at the Ranch through 2013, these issues need to be ironed out soon than later. As for future venues, that won't happen as long as the Ranch guarantees the FHSAA the payday they want, that will be the ultimate deciding factor...just my 2 cents.