flrunners.com

Coaches,

The FHSAA Cross Country Advisory Committee is scheduled to meet this week on Thursday (12/1).

If there are any issues/topics/concerns/ideas you'd like to have brought up in this meeting, please post them here.

Thanks,
Justin Smith

I think the start time of the state meet must be addressed.

@CoachSmith yes please. The lack of Gatorade (ironically a State meet sponsor) at the finish line... the late start time combined with the number of athletes clearly being depleted was a problem that water in Gatorade cups isn't going to do very much good to fix.

I think it is a 2 year classification cycle, so i am not sure it would do any good for next season, but possibly looking into reverting back to format with larger districts. Splitting each region into 4 districts has no merit- not enough teams to make districts worthwhile. At our district meet- 39 total girls finishers, 36 total boys finishers. 5 total boys teams, and 5 total girls teams

@aholmes80 What Andy said... x2. The smaller districts made for some really pathetic little meets. Our two-county championship was bigger. Go back to eight districts.

I have to agree with BOTH of those topics mentioned.

1) We need to go back to the original starting times posted by the FHSAA. Next year should look something like this (if they go back to the original schedule):
7:30 2A Girls
7:55 3A Girls
8:20 2A Boys
8:45 3A Boys
9:05 4A Girls (already warm)
9:30 1A Girls (warm)
9:55 4A Boys (already hot)
10:20 1A Boys (HOT!)
This schedule was as good as it gets for Florida weather. Why fix it if its not broken!

2) The Districts need to go back to the way they were in 2010 season. We usually compete in meets with 20+ teams week in and week out, and now we go to the "District Championship" to have a duel meet.

3) Will the State meet be on Nov 17 (to early) or on Nov 24?

I think this year they started the race in 20 minute increments instead of 25, which was fine i thought. If they started at 7:30, that would then make the last race 9:50, which is far more manageable.

I think there should be some minimum standards needed to host a regional meet. Maybe someone could help with some ideas, but in talking to other coaches who had regionals at different sites, there were several locations that were terrible hosts or locations for a regional meet. The form used from the FHSAA that asks for regional meet hosts is fairly generic, and does not ask specific questions.

Any thoughts anyone?

I think the top 8 teams in each class and gender should receive medals at the State meet... it would still be cheaper than track .....

Thanks for the input Coaches, I will do my best to address your concerns, faxing over agenda items now.

@aholmes80 And publicly post the schools/courses offering to host. At least allow input from other schools in the region when there are more than one bid for the region. It might also prompt other schools to put up a bid.

The BEST decision the FHSAA made in recent years was to move the FHSAA starting time back to 7:30 AM and go in 25 minute intervals between races; the WORST decision the FHSAA made in the recent years was, for some inexplicable reason, to move the starting time up to 8:30 AM; even though they tried to go in 20 minute intervals it was still close to 11:00 AM at the start of the Boys 2A race and at that time it was already 80 degrees (on a course with no shade). It is hypocritical of the FHSAA to send out mass mailings over the summer about the importance of hydration and the dangers of heat related activity and then to come along and say that it is OK to run the most important race of the year in those conditions. All season long varsity girls and varsity boys are racing at 8:00 and 8:30 AM to avoid the worst of the Florida heat and humidity and then at the state meet the first of 8 races does not go off until 8:30 AM. The 7:30 AM start time worked fine – I never heard a coach or runner complain (and that’s all that should matter); and the 20 minute interval this year seemed to work OK, even if there were a lot of girls finishing one race while runners from the next race were overlapping them on the back straight. Of all the changes the FHSAA could and should make before next year, I think the state meet schedule is the most important because it’s a decision that has the most impact on the health and safety of the runners (which they supposedly care about). Maybe the people in charge of these decisions should watch the video of some of the later races from this year's state meet.
Based on watching the races this year and looking at the times of the back of the pack runners, I would go with a 20 minute interval after the boys races and a 25 minute interval after the girls races; so the state meet schedule should look something like this:
7:30 am: 2A Girls
7:55 am: 3A Girls
8:20 am: 2A Boys
8:40 am: 3A Boys
9:00 am: 4A Girls
9:25 am: 1A Girls
9:50 am: 4A Boys
10:10 am: 1A Boys

@vantheman

Why even do 25 minute increments? Just start at 7:30AM and do 20. I thought it worked fine...

@Coach_Loth

Yeah, it did, worked fine – although there were quite a few 1A girls on the back straight (still over a 1/2 mile to go) getting overtaken by most of the 2A girls; you will notice that I did say take a 20 minute interval after boys races and a 25 minutes interval after girls (to avoid any congestion like that). That said, it would be great to start the last race at 9:50 AM and have almost every runner off the course no later than 10:15 AM (which would be the case if we went with 20 minute intervals). Either way is fine with me as long as the FHSAA and the ranch manager (big obstacle in this) could see some common sense and start the meet at 7:30 AM and put on a race schedule that is best for the runners and not best for lining their pockets.
**on a related side note, there was a thread about 6 weeks ago on the state meet time schedule and around the same time there was also a thread on the length of the pre-state meet course; there were 15 comments on the thread about the state meet time schedule and 115 comments on the length of the pre-state course. It’s amazing (and disappointing) to me that so many people seem to care about whether or not the course is 30m too short or too long and so few people seem to care about the later start to the state meet this year. Ask those kids who suffered through those later HOT races at the state meet which they cared more about . . . hey, it’s OK kid, don’t worry about having to race in 80 degrees (no shade) . . . you will be glad to know that the course is exactly 3.1 miles (or maybe not) and measured and wheeled with the latest and greatest extra special calibrated wheel with a built in top-of-the-line GPS adjusted for the height of the grass and the moisture in the air . . . yeah, that’s great Mr. Official Wheel Guy . . . now please pass me a water before I pass out!!!

Course measurements.

@vantheman Perhaps the FHSAA and LER would consider a schedule change as opposed to an on-course tragedy and corresponding lawsuits? ... then again, maybe they can afford litigation given the cuts they are receiving on the farcical parking gouge and 400% markup on t-shirts.

Would it be too much to suggest they actually put the welfare of the students ahead of their own financial gain?

I agree with the earlier start time. Curious why it was changed in the first place.

This past week I had the opportunity to attend the NCAA Championship, Footlocker South, and FHSAA State Championship. Our state meet is by far the most expensive and least friendly for coaches, athletes, and/or fans. For NCAA the entry fee was only $5 total. Footlocker was free ($15 for athletes). State meet was $10 for parking and $9 for entry. Souvenir t-shirts at NCAA were $22, Footlocker $20 (free for registered athletes), state $30+. Course access was completely open for both NCAA and Footlocker. I didn't see one incident were an athlete was interfered with due to fans or coaches moving around the course. I was even allowed to run the course at NCAA the day of the race with no objections.

LFCSumner3

This past week I had the opportunity to attend the NCAA Championship, Footlocker South, and FHSAA State Championship. Our state meet is by far the most expensive and least friendly for coaches, athletes, and/or fans. For NCAA the entry fee was only $5 total. Footlocker was free ($15 for athletes). State meet was $10 for parking and $9 for entry. Souvenir t-shirts at NCAA were $22, Footlocker $20 (free for registered athletes), state $30+. Course access was completely open for both NCAA and Footlocker. I didn't see one incident were an athlete was interfered with due to fans or coaches moving around the course. I was even allowed to run the course at NCAA the day of the race with no objections.

@LFCSumner3 Post of the Month. Maybe Post the Year.

@tallydad

I agree 100% -- perhaps I was being overly optimistic when I said it would be nice if the FHSAA and the Ranch saw some common sense and put on a race schedule that showed they cared more about the kids than themselves, but, in reality, it will probably take a lot more than that.

Can the FHSAA put a STOP to the Shirt company on their over pricing. Why is this company allowed to charge 400% over the retail price. I don't mind profit, but we ALL know each of those shirts cost under $4 to make. Since I refuse for my kids to get robbed by the FHSAA I have taken it upon myself to get my kids "unofficial" State shirts for a quarter of the price. I can't discuss the steps to the solution but I can say a simple picture with a cell phone of the "original" shirt and $7 per runner will get my entire team shirts.. Use your imagination.
YOU WILL NOT STEEL FROM MY KIDS..

Another issue is Regional Championship:
Can we allow the Region Host to make the Regional Championship any day between Wed to Sat (the week before State). The South Region ALWAYS needs to ask for a waiver to compete on Wed. There has been some years where we are allowed to compete on Wed and other years where they feel like saying NO.. The facility for the Regional Championship is reserved for another event on Thur, Fri and Sat. Which leave our only option to compete on Wed..

1. Coordination of PA announcer and the events going on. Races would go off during interviews. Instead, have someone in your ear letting you know you have two minutes before a race goes off. Then announce the start of that race. Get attention to the start so those interested can watch/video/start their watches.
2. I'm mixed on the course access. I was at the Foot Locker South 3 days ago and saw some pretty bad coach and fan interference.
3. On several occasions the crowd in the bleachers was pretty upset that the finish line clock was still showing the previous race time. The person making that swith had head phones one (doing his job) so not sure if he's aware of the crowd's wishes.

@Gooch7
I would be glad to throw my hat in the ring to take over the FL XC State series t-shirt design, production and marketing if the FHSAA is willing to listen. What I would bring to the table:

1. Quality designs that are XC centric not generic cookie cutter prints like the last few years. Sell throughs will be better with less mark downs.

2. Back prints that are by classification so the runner's names are legible.

3. Priced right so they are not above keystone profit.

I did the FLYRA Middle School State meet shirts this year with direction from the meet director and had 97% sell through.

The company that has the rights now does all the FHSAA shirts for all the sports so getting them to break off our 'little' sport would be highly unlikely, but it's worth a try

~Twangster

@Gooch7 I found this on the Team IP website..."Team IP has four mission statements: (1) Honor God. (2) Develop People. (3) Strive for Excellence. (4) Make a profit."
1-3 are not bad! Maybe (4) should be phrased a bit differently!

debibilz1989

@Gooch7 I found this on the Team IP website..."Team IP has four mission statements: (1) Honor God. (2) Develop People. (3) Strive for Excellence. (4) Make a profit."
1-3 are not bad! Maybe (4) should be phrased a bit differently!

@debibilz1989 Did it happen to say, "not necessarily in this order"?

Clock switch over.... as I understood while working with Half Mile Timing during pre-state meet, when the clock is switched over the previous race is no longer being timed. 20 minute interval, especially after a girls race, will definitely cause an overlap. Announcer could address/explain this.

Start time of state meet.... Ok, I think this is mostly the decision of the LER folks, but agreed to by FHSAA. If it is the decision of Little Everglades management, I assure you that welfare of the runners is a low priority. Not that they want anyone injured, but probably don't understand the seriousness of a few degree temperature change. Not really sure why they wanted it an hour later... to avoid people arriving in the dark?

T-shirts... they are gouging for sure. Only FHSAA can stop them. Not sure why they wouldn't take a stand to control prices.

I agree 100% with @LFCSumner3.

Cross Country races are 100x better when spectators can run from mile marker to mile marker. If you have ever had the opportunity to attend NCAAs, you know how great of an experience it is. Look how great meets like Deja Vu at Ed Radice and FL South are. The atmosphere is that much better for both the spectators and the runners when you have free access to the course.

Not sure if its the FHSAA who decided that, of its the the Ranch. If its the ranch worrying about their property, my reply would be they are allowing a Tough Mudder event to be hosted there....a few people running around for a few hours cant be that bad.

@ReinholdNiehbur
Wrong on pretty much all points.

1. The FHSAA does not negotiate a set profit but asks for a licensing fee that is a small percentage of total sales.

2. The FHSAA is a Non-profit organization that is largely funded with program fees and member school dues.

3. Keystone profit is 50% margin or more literally a gross margin that is 100% of the cost price. The company that now produces the shirts are in the 300 to 400% range. That is gouging.

Until you know what you are posting about, please go troll somewhere else.

~Twangster