COMPETE in 5 Meets
01/05/2018 12:34:59 PM
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Policy 10.3.1.3 Individuals must compete in 5 regular season meets to be eligible for the State Series. Sorry if this has been discussed before. In the policy the word compete is underlined. Is this indicative that an individual must actually have a result or does compete still include being at a meet hanging out in your uniform???
Policy 10.3.1.3
Individuals must compete in 5 regular season meets to be eligible for the State
Series.

Sorry if this has been discussed before. In the policy the word compete is underlined. Is this indicative that an individual must actually have a result or does compete still include being at a meet hanging out in your uniform???
01/05/2018 3:45:06 PM
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@CoachHoward At the FACA today it was stated they must compete. Even if that is in a consolation or JV race. They must compete in 5 meets to be eligible for the post season, just wearing a uniform at a meet does NOT count.
@CoachHoward At the FACA today it was stated they must compete. Even if that is in a consolation or JV race. They must compete in 5 meets to be eligible for the post season, just wearing a uniform at a meet does NOT count.
01/05/2018 4:05:31 PM
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@ Thanks Dusty. If the rule is going to be in place this is the way to interpret it in my opinion. Only way to verify participation, except of course, for those small weekday meets that don't report their results.
@ Thanks Dusty. If the rule is going to be in place this is the way to interpret it in my opinion. Only way to verify participation, except of course, for those small weekday meets that don't report their results.
01/05/2018 8:24:06 PM
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Do you have to compete 5 times in the event you will run in the State Series, or if you are 3200m runner can you do the long jump in 5 meets and then compete in the 3200 at districts? I know the answer, but it seems it could be understood both ways.
Do you have to compete 5 times in the event you will run in the State Series, or if you are 3200m runner can you do the long jump in 5 meets and then compete in the 3200 at districts? I know the answer, but it seems it could be understood both ways.
01/05/2018 9:04:16 PM
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Does a DNF count as competing?
Does a DNF count as competing?
01/05/2018 11:51:26 PM
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For the first question. No, you do not have to compete five times in a certain event. It just needs to be five times in any event. For the second question. Yes, a DNF counts as competing.
For the first question. No, you do not have to compete five times in a certain event. It just needs to be five times in any event.

For the second question. Yes, a DNF counts as competing.
01/12/2018 7:34:41 AM
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I'm pretty sure we have all dealt with this at some point, but there are several schools in our district who compete in less than 5 meets prior to the district meet. Whether its a logistical or monetary issue, there are always schools who just don't attend meets. They don't even participate in duel meets. But at the district meet an unknown athlete will show up (seemingly out of nowhere), perform well and factor not only into who qualifies for regionals, but how teams score and finish in the race for the district title. I always tell my athletes to expect the unexpected and to compete against whoever shows up. But unless these athletes are competing in 3 - 5 unreported duel meets, they are obviously ineligible for the state series. Exactly what does the FHSAA do to make sure participating schools/athletes have the minimum number of meets? Is it done on an "honor" system? Do they need others to report schools/athletes who may be in violation?
I'm pretty sure we have all dealt with this at some point, but there are several schools in our district who compete in less than 5 meets prior to the district meet. Whether its a logistical or monetary issue, there are always schools who just don't attend meets. They don't even participate in duel meets. But at the district meet an unknown athlete will show up (seemingly out of nowhere), perform well and factor not only into who qualifies for regionals, but how teams score and finish in the race for the district title. I always tell my athletes to expect the unexpected and to compete against whoever shows up. But unless these athletes are competing in 3 - 5 unreported duel meets, they are obviously ineligible for the state series. Exactly what does the FHSAA do to make sure participating schools/athletes have the minimum number of meets? Is it done on an "honor" system? Do they need others to report schools/athletes who may be in violation?
01/12/2018 9:06:07 AM
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I'll second Coach Howard on this one. Rules should not be implemented that are not able to be adequately monitored. We have the same problem in cross country. The ADs at FHSAA just shot down the idea of moving cross minimum to 4 meets from 5. As we all know 5 meets is difficult especially if you are training properly, have freshman joining the squad late, have a rain out, hurricane, and sickness, ACT/SAT testing and a million other things. Add on to the fact in cross country the requirement is being in uniform at a meet. There is no way to regulate this. If you can't regulate it why do we have the rule. The ethical people (the majority) will follow rules, fill out waivers, etc. but why not change the rule to an enforceable one if we are going to have it at all.
I'll second Coach Howard on this one. Rules should not be implemented that are not able to be adequately monitored. We have the same problem in cross country. The ADs at FHSAA just shot down the idea of moving cross minimum to 4 meets from 5. As we all know 5 meets is difficult especially if you are training properly, have freshman joining the squad late, have a rain out, hurricane, and sickness, ACT/SAT testing and a million other things. Add on to the fact in cross country the requirement is being in uniform at a meet. There is no way to regulate this. If you can't regulate it why do we have the rule. The ethical people (the majority) will follow rules, fill out waivers, etc. but why not change the rule to an enforceable one if we are going to have it at all.
01/12/2018 9:14:36 AM
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In my experience - when coaches have tried to get my athletes disqualified, based on the 5 meet rule - FHSAA would contact me to say a violation was reported. Then I scrambled to prove the report was false. Note to coaches who intend to report this violation: relays count as participation. Every year, I have at least one athlete who does not show up five times in individual milesplit results, because she or he ran mostly relays. While coaches aren't always required to have relay members' names listed for results, I always do so when I can, to have the participation documented.
In my experience - when coaches have tried to get my athletes disqualified, based on the 5 meet rule - FHSAA would contact me to say a violation was reported. Then I scrambled to prove the report was false.

Note to coaches who intend to report this violation: relays count as participation. Every year, I have at least one athlete who does not show up five times in individual milesplit results, because she or he ran mostly relays. While coaches aren't always required to have relay members' names listed for results, I always do so when I can, to have the participation documented.
01/12/2018 10:49:05 AM
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To be clear, my understanding is running in a consolation race COUNTS as participating in a meet. Those athletes will not show up in results.
To be clear, my understanding is running in a consolation race COUNTS as participating in a meet. Those athletes will not show up in results.
01/12/2018 11:39:34 AM
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@CoachGCracker There are many rules about many things in everything we do. Why have a speed limit if it can't be enforced all the time? The object of having the rules in place is to ensure a level playing field. It's clearly for everyone's benefit. We expect our coaches to be ethical and teach/model ethical behavior. What I would like to know is how can we legitimately go about ensuring compliance in an efficient manner--meaning results/participation reporting that isn't onerous for all involved? This is a question that cuts across all individual sports in the association, not just track and cross country.
@CoachGCracker There are many rules about many things in everything we do. Why have a speed limit if it can't be enforced all the time? The object of having the rules in place is to ensure a level playing field. It's clearly for everyone's benefit. We expect our coaches to be ethical and teach/model ethical behavior. What I would like to know is how can we legitimately go about ensuring compliance in an efficient manner--meaning results/participation reporting that isn't onerous for all involved? This is a question that cuts across all individual sports in the association, not just track and cross country.
01/12/2018 4:53:46 PM
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@edwardjthompson How does saying you have to be in 5 regular season meets level the playing field? Why is it 5 and not 3 or some other number? Nearly all college coaches run their distance athletes at meets every other week to promote training, some even less. I know a number of coaches who tempo at times in meets because it’s not good for training purposes to run fast all the time. Are we really helping or hurting the student athlete by placing the requirement in place? As for enforcement 3 meets and results must be in Florida Runners. Only exception medical waiver. Meet not on Florida Runners it doesn’t count.
@edwardjthompson
How does saying you have to be in 5 regular season meets level the playing field? Why is it 5 and not 3 or some other number? Nearly all college coaches run their distance athletes at meets every other week to promote training, some even less. I know a number of coaches who tempo at times in meets because it's not good for training purposes to run fast all the time. Are we really helping or hurting the student athlete by placing the requirement in place?

As for enforcement 3 meets and results must be in Florida Runners. Only exception medical waiver. Meet not on Florida Runners it doesn't count.
01/12/2018 5:08:40 PM
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@CoachGCracker I think Mr. Thompson's point wasn't that 5 meets are fair and equitable but that everyone participating in the required number of meets is. We can have a separate discussion about how many meets are ideal. My concern remains that some coaches will do what they can to circumvent the rule while most will adhere to it faithfully, even if they don't agree with it. Thanks, Mr. Thompson, for your response.
@CoachGCracker I think Mr. Thompson's point wasn't that 5 meets are fair and equitable but that everyone participating in the required number of meets is. We can have a separate discussion about how many meets are ideal.

My concern remains that some coaches will do what they can to circumvent the rule while most will adhere to it faithfully, even if they don't agree with it.

Thanks, Mr. Thompson, for your response.
01/12/2018 8:11:54 PM
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Personally I am sick of all the big meets, when did the dual meet go away or the tri-meets during the week? These were great competitive training days, that you could run and still do a mini workout after or before, and guess what they would count as a competitive meet. Also given that most counties have a Conference meet you are only running 4 other races. I am one to not usually agree with FHSAA on issues, but this is silly to me...add a fun local meet...which are free outside transportation cost and get 5 in or run the Saturdays as a workout at an invite...no one said you have to run The ROC or the Elite race at prestate if you choose to make that competition a hard one instead of a solid training run or racing experience, then that is pride getting in the way
Personally I am sick of all the big meets, when did the dual meet go away or the tri-meets during the week? These were great competitive training days, that you could run and still do a mini workout after or before, and guess what they would count as a competitive meet. Also given that most counties have a Conference meet you are only running 4 other races. I am one to not usually agree with FHSAA on issues, but this is silly to me...add a fun local meet...which are free outside transportation cost and get 5 in or run the Saturdays as a workout at an invite...no one said you have to run The ROC or the Elite race at prestate if you choose to make that competition a hard one instead of a solid training run or racing experience, then that is pride getting in the way

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