Distance Accuracy? Too many PRs?
09/10/2019 8:02:11 AM
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@MamaRuns it said 3 miles on the times the other day but they are being counted in the system as 5k for some reason now...with no 3 mile listed
@MamaRuns
it said 3 miles on the times the other day but they are being counted in the system as 5k for some reason now...with no 3 mile listed
09/10/2019 8:06:19 AM
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It appears that all 25 of the top 25 boys and 17 of the top 25 girls made a PR in this race. Just wondering if the accuracy of the distance was verified? When compared to last year‘s race, the differences are quite significant. My son doesn’t want to claim a PR if it’s not actually a PR.
It appears that all 25 of the top 25 boys and 17 of the top 25 girls made a PR in this race. Just wondering if the accuracy of the distance was verified? When compared to last year's race, the differences are quite significant. My son doesn't want to claim a PR if it's not actually a PR.
09/10/2019 8:14:40 AM
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@raycer131 so does that mean they checked the distance and verified it? My son said there was a 1:13 difference between the average time last year and the average time this year
@raycer131 so does that mean they checked the distance and verified it? My son said there was a 1:13 difference between the average time last year and the average time this year
09/10/2019 8:20:04 AM
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@MamaRuns No idea just stating what I saw... when I checked results a few days ago I noticed the fast times, then saw it was listed as a 3 mile and made sense...then came on today and it is listed as a 5k???
@MamaRuns
No idea just stating what I saw... when I checked results a few days ago I noticed the fast times, then saw it was listed as a 3 mile and made sense...then came on today and it is listed as a 5k???
09/10/2019 9:52:22 AM
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If it is the same course at McKethan Lake as usual it is a 5K however it is all road hence fast times. Always a fast course been run for districts a number of times throughout the year. Not sure if they had changes to the course from the past or not though.
If it is the same course at McKethan Lake as usual it is a 5K however it is all road hence fast times. Always a fast course been run for districts a number of times throughout the year. Not sure if they had changes to the course from the past or not though.
09/10/2019 10:04:32 AM
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Most likely short although people dont seem to admit it. The Flrunners database holds a number of short courses the only way to tell what a runner can run is by comparing his times and viewing all the pr’s on the courses.
Most likely short although people dont seem to admit it. The Flrunners database holds a number of short courses the only way to tell what a runner can run is by comparing his times and viewing all the pr's on the courses.
09/10/2019 10:54:11 AM
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It's a flat road race course - 90% asphalt, 10% grass. It's an accurately measured 5k with fixed start and finish points, but it will run 45 seconds faster than the average XC course when the weather is good. You can claim it as a 5K PR if you want, but know that your athlete won't run as fast the next week. Like the other known fast courses (Wickham Park, North Port, etc.) times from this course need to be taken with a grain of salt.
It's a flat road race course - 90% asphalt, 10% grass. It's an accurately measured 5k with fixed start and finish points, but it will run 45 seconds faster than the average XC course when the weather is good. You can claim it as a 5K PR if you want, but know that your athlete won't run as fast the next week. Like the other known fast courses (Wickham Park, North Port, etc.) times from this course need to be taken with a grain of salt.
09/10/2019 11:16:37 AM
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@Stevefarn Whens the last time you been to Wickham Park? Not sure I have seen you there so will enlighten you since you included my Wickham Park course. After three weeks of races, 7 of my 41 runners have a season best time at Wickham Park, 22 of the 41 have season best times from Florida Horse Park. Does that mean Dusty's course is short?
@Stevefarn Whens the last time you been to Wickham Park? Not sure I have seen you there so will enlighten you since you included my Wickham Park course. After three weeks of races, 7 of my 41 runners have a season best time at Wickham Park, 22 of the 41 have season best times from Florida Horse Park. Does that mean Dusty's course is short?
09/10/2019 11:42:55 AM
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@coachbutler Athletes should improve as the season goes on. Our athletes ran McKethan Lake three weeks ago in a 5K race as a time trial and put up great times. Then they ran two slowish courses and put up mostly slower times. Nearly everyone then beat their McKethan Lake times and ran a season best or PR at FL Horse Park, which is a flat, hard-packed grass course than tends to run 20-25 seconds faster than the average course if it's not too hot, as it was this Saturday. I think Dusty sets it up as 20-25 meters long so people won't claim its a short course.
@coachbutler

Athletes should improve as the season goes on. Our athletes ran McKethan Lake three weeks ago in a 5K race as a time trial and put up great times. Then they ran two slowish courses and put up mostly slower times. Nearly everyone then beat their McKethan Lake times and ran a season best or PR at FL Horse Park, which is a flat, hard-packed grass course than tends to run 20-25 seconds faster than the average course if it's not too hot, as it was this Saturday. I think Dusty sets it up as 20-25 meters long so people won't claim its a short course.
09/10/2019 11:53:07 AM
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@Stevefarn So if Dusty sets it up long and 22 of of 28 of my runners ran faster at Horse Park than they did 3 weeks earlier at Wickham, that leads me to conclude that: A. Wickham is longer than horse park 0r B. I am on heck of a coach to get nearly 80% to all run faster on the same day just three weeks later. So not sure how you see Wickham as fast but I guess you would know.
@Stevefarn So if Dusty sets it up long and 22 of of 28 of my runners ran faster at Horse Park than they did 3 weeks earlier at Wickham, that leads me to conclude that:
A. Wickham is longer than horse park
0r
B. I am on heck of a coach to get nearly 80% to all run faster on the same day just three weeks later.

So not sure how you see Wickham as fast but I guess you would know.
09/10/2019 12:16:25 PM
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These conversations about short courses seem to be extensive and time consuming. At the end they don't go anywhere, most should just be honest about their course or maybe have an official wheel the courses
These conversations about short courses seem to be extensive and time consuming. At the end they don't go anywhere, most should just be honest about their course or maybe have an official wheel the courses
09/10/2019 12:18:29 PM
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I just found it interesting that ALL 30 of the top 30 boys ran a PR and 21 of the top 30 girls ran a PR especially this early in the season. (He only looked at the top 30 runners.) My son is a bit of a purist and doesn’t want to claim his PR (by :40 seconds) as a real PR if it’s not. He also noted the difference between last year’s boys 1-25 place average was 18:29.68 and this year’s boys 1-25 place average was 17:01...seems like a huge difference
I just found it interesting that ALL 30 of the top 30 boys ran a PR and 21 of the top 30 girls ran a PR especially this early in the season. (He only looked at the top 30 runners.) My son is a bit of a purist and doesn't want to claim his PR (by :40 seconds) as a real PR if it's not.

He also noted the difference between last year's boys 1-25 place average was 18:29.68 and this year's boys 1-25 place average was 17:01...seems like a huge difference
09/10/2019 12:21:53 PM
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@MamaRuns Yes wouldn’t be surprised if they would later not be able to beat this time at APR. Even runners showing to have a bad day have pr’d at the race.
@MamaRuns
Yes wouldn't be surprised if they would later not be able to beat this time at APR.
Even runners showing to have a bad day have pr'd at the race.
09/10/2019 12:24:24 PM
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@ShorterCourse I am a certified official that wheeled my course : )
@ShorterCourse I am a certified official that wheeled my course : )
09/10/2019 12:27:08 PM
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@coachbutler Now are we talking about Wickham or Hernandez HS course?
@coachbutler
Now are we talking about Wickham or Hernandez HS course?
09/10/2019 12:34:10 PM
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@ShorterCourse Wickham, it was referred to in this thread.
@ShorterCourse Wickham, it was referred to in this thread.
09/10/2019 12:46:17 PM
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McKethan Lake has been surveyed with pins placed in the ground. It does not change from year to year. You had some of the top teams in the state running in 2019, versus local teams with low rankings in 2018 - year to year average comparisons are useless. It would be better to find athletes that ran both years and compare them.
McKethan Lake has been surveyed with pins placed in the ground. It does not change from year to year. You had some of the top teams in the state running in 2019, versus local teams with low rankings in 2018 - year to year average comparisons are useless. It would be better to find athletes that ran both years and compare them.
09/10/2019 12:47:08 PM
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Mckethan Lake is like having a pint of Ben & Jerry's ice cream after dinner. You know its not good for you but you have it anyway. Steve would you say M. Lake is 30-35 seconds faster than ARP under same weather conditions. That is my read on the history of M Lake #s. Horsepark is 2-5 seconds faster than ARP under same conditions. so its appropriately like a "bowl of whole oats with a light cream glazing." Coach Butler's top guy will run fast ( that was a great performance in 71-72 degree weather and humidity).
Mckethan Lake is like having a pint of Ben & Jerry's ice cream after dinner. You know its not good for you but you have it anyway.

Steve would you say M. Lake is 30-35 seconds faster than ARP under same weather conditions. That is my read on the history of M Lake #s.

Horsepark is 2-5 seconds faster than ARP under same conditions. so its appropriately like a "bowl of whole oats with a light cream glazing."

Coach Butler's top guy will run fast ( that was a great performance in 71-72 degree weather and humidity).
09/10/2019 12:50:17 PM
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@coachbutler thanks for making the Flrunners community and database better. You have served well by wheeling your course
@coachbutler
thanks for making the Flrunners community and database better. You have served well by wheeling your course
09/10/2019 12:57:35 PM
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@Stevefarn Actually an athlete of no name hit a 15:20 on this course his junior year. Mans didn’t even pr until next year he was not able to hit another 15:20 until the end of his high school career this shows how this course may not be accurate. In addition to that this athlete also hit a minute slower time at APR this same year
@Stevefarn
Actually an athlete of no name hit a 15:20 on this course his junior year. Mans didn't even pr until next year he was not able to hit another 15:20 until the end of his high school career this shows how this course may not be accurate.
In addition to that this athlete also hit a minute slower time at APR this same year

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